It's common knowledge that there are plenty of "ifs" surrounding Miami's approach to the quarterback position in 2012. What if Archie Manning decides that Peyton should play for the Dolphins? What if Joe Philbin is in it for Packers backup quarterback Matt Flynn once free agency kicks off on March 13? What if the Dolphins throw caution (and picks) to the wind and pursue Robert Griffin III in the NFL Draft this April? We'll explore each scenario over the next few weeks and try to get an idea of how a Manning or Flynn acquisition will affect the Dolphins' 2012 early-round draft plans. And in the meantime, we'll be able to alter those draft plans, based on what happens during the NFL Combine in late February, as well as the plethora of pro day workouts scheduled to take place between now and late April.
The inaugural post in this series will focus on quarterback addition that would've seemed like an impossibly long pipe dream just nine months ago: Peyton Manning
Round one: Find an impact pass-rusher ASAP
Manning's presence in Miami won't change the fact that the Dolphins' pass-rush is wildly inconsistent (at best) and straight-up nonexistent (at worst). Cameron Wake should feel completely at home as a defensive end in the Dolphins' 4-3 hybrid scheme (which is what the team is slated to run next season), and Jared Odrick and Randy Starks both have the size and strength to make plenty of noise along the interior; however, Miami absolutely needs a flexible-yet-stout pass-rush presence across from Wake, and that means their first-round selection should be used on a defensive end prospect with "tweener" size. North Carolina defensive end Quinton Coples would be an immediate run-stuffing presence at end for the Dolphins, but the operative word here is "hybrid," and while Coples is a phenomenal athlete, his play just doesn't suggest the presence of scheme diversity (for what it's worth, I don't like Coples as a 5-technique player, either). On the contrary, South Carolina defensive end Melvin Ingram's play does, in fact, reek of scheme diversity, and you could also make the case that he's actually a purer pass-rushing presence than Coples.
Ingram (6'2, 271) is strong enough to put his hand on the ground and play end in the 4-3, yet fast enough to make a difference at outside linebacker in the 3-4. It's extremely difficult to find a defender with the strength and athleticism to be effective at both positions, and the selection of Ingram would mean that the Dolphins technically have two players capable of fulfilling such a daunting requirement. That's rare stuff.
Round two: Find a quarterback to groom behind No. 18
All eyes should be on Miami's second-round pick this April, since it could be the spot where the Dolphins select their long-awaited "quarterback of the future." If the team follows through on a signal caller during day two of the draft, that player will be put in the enviable position of learning behind the most cerebral quarterback to ever play the game, and that means the Dolphins might be less hesitant to select a quarterback who is big on physical talent but raw in terms of mental approach to the position.
Who might that quarterback be? How about Arizona State's Brock Osweiler?
Osweiler is a gifted passer who will almost certainly need 1-2 years of development time before he's ready to step into a starting role. Like Manning, Osweiler (6'8", 240) is tall for the position; however, unlike his would-be mentor, Osweiler is shockingly athletic for a player of his height, and consistently flashes the ability to make things happen outside the pocket. Osweiler also bucks the quarterback theorem, super height = long release, with an ultra-compact throwing motion capable of producing major-league heat. When his feet are set, Osweiler displays good accuracy and decent touch on the ball, but he'll need plenty of footwork drilling at the next level. His pocket awareness needs plenty of work, as well.
Like many players with upside galore, Osweiler will enter the draft with plenty of question marks regarding his ability to adapt to the NFL game, so why not ease the learning curve and allow him to learn from Peyton freaking Manning? In fact, perhaps the best aspect of Manning's presence in Miami is this: it'd allow the Dolphins to swing for the fences on a quarterback they normally wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.
Next week, we'll take a look at what the Dolphins might look to do if Matt Flynn decides to join Joe Philbin in Miami.
2 recs | 68 comments
get peyton,u go ot in the first
another beast tackle is gonna keep peyton upright and help bush in the run game,u gotta protect a guy thats had 3 neck injuries,yes the pass rush was less than ideal but wake and starks r both tough and odrick is only gonna get better, and movin dansby 2 OLB will help,A qb cant do wut he does if he stays on his back…….ask david carr and tim couch lol
im-twitch-fool!! - February 7, 2012 via mobile
almost forgot.....1st!!
im-twitch-fool!! - February 7, 2012 via mobile
dansby is a MLB hes not moving. they signed him to a big contract so he'd play mlb
Tison M - February 7, 2012
Dansby will most likely be OLB
Like he was in Arizona when they were in a 4-3.
Agent J 78 - February 7, 2012
They signed him to a big contract, but the pay scale is more in tune with a premiere OLB
In the 4-3, he plays OLB, our MLB is Burnett, with Misi as a tweener OLB/ DE. Personally i think he would be better suited to play DE. His original position.
I really think we would be satisfied with a front line of: Odrick, McDaniels, Starks, Odrick.
Sure Odrick is a bit big to play DE in the 4-3, but look how it works in Indy. Hes athletic enough to play the Freeney role in the D.
dolphinfan4lyfe - February 7, 2012 via mobile
i think odrick is great, but
is he that good that he can play both sides at the same time?
Phinphinatic - February 7, 2012
He is quick for a big guy lol
I know a lot of folks aren’t high on Misi, but would a move to DE in the 4-3 benefit him?
And for what it’s worth, JT had nothing but great things to say about the guy…
Red Dog - February 7, 2012
Odrick, imo, has the potential to be the best player on our defensive line
But U think he belongs on the inside in a 4-3 scheme.
kmb8488 - February 7, 2012
I*
kmb8488 - February 7, 2012
O*
Phinphinatic - February 8, 2012
Trade Down!
Miami’s best move is to trade down, get another 2nd round pick. And John Jerry and Lydon Murtha might be the answer at RT. Key is what Sherman thinks of Tannehill, and would Miami draft him. Osweiler might be had in the 3rd round. Also what does philbin and sherman think of Pat Devlin?
tpl - February 7, 2012
I like the trade down idea
I don’t want Peyton.
However. if somehow we dan get Dwayne Allen and Ryan Tannehill, I won’t be unhappy. Obviously a pass rusher and another O-Liner are are needs as well.
But what do we know?? We got a whole new front office except JI.
DAVEBUCK - February 7, 2012
oh god
Give it a rest.
kingmz - February 7, 2012
trade down with cincy for the 17th pick, their 2nd for our 1st
they will be able to draft trent richardson to fill a huge need in their backfield . sign manningham or garcon. with the 17th pick, get whitney mercilus. get dwayne allen or coby fleener in the 2nd along with jayron hosley with cincys 2nd. osweiler in the 3rd, safety in the 4th and the BPA the rest of the draft.
AnishB15 - February 7, 2012 via mobile
I would love to see either of those TE
But Allen is most likely going to end up at the end of the 1st round (the Giants would make sense) and I see Fleener going to the Colts. With a new regime and new QB that usually means either protection or weapons for said QB. What better way than to give Luck both with someone he is familiar with?
Agent J 78 - February 7, 2012
ladatius green then
AnishB15 - February 7, 2012 via mobile
How about a RT to protect Peyton?
TheFinReaper - February 7, 2012
That could work. We're just exploring options anyway
kmb8488 - February 7, 2012
rt inot a premier position like Lt is
pass rush is much more important. and lydon murtha will be perfectly fine at Rt. an oline of long-incognito-pouncey-jerry-murtha will be more than sufficient
AnishB15 - February 7, 2012 via mobile
Hmmmm
This article actually makes me kinda like the manning pickup…. Hmmmmmmmm
Sharkz_N_Phinz - February 7, 2012 via Android app
if we do get peyton
I say get tannenhill too
ricenbeans82 - February 7, 2012 via mobile
How smart is osweiler though?
Will he be able to retain the info that Manning has to teach…
Jason Scott_90 - February 7, 2012
That will be the biggest question mark
Agent J 78 - February 7, 2012
Arm strength vs brain strength....
Alpha6 - February 7, 2012
I have neither
Phinsphana - February 7, 2012
only flaw with this plan (that I see)
Is that Manning is not a teacher….
samalex - February 7, 2012
There is more than one way to learn from someone.
texascowpunk - February 7, 2012 via Android app
brett farvererererer was not a great teacher either
but, someone excelled under him.
Phinphinatic - February 8, 2012
Well the fact that the guy behind him sucked and thus he must be a terrible teacher is an argument without merit.
Unless they were there they do not have a clue. For all we know Peyton took the guy under his wing and tried to teach him everything and in the end the guy was just not that good. Maybe none of that happened but the argument is based on ignorance.
texascowpunk - February 8, 2012
i agree
at the end of the day it is the coach’s job to coach and the players job to play. Peyton seems (to me) like the kind of guy that will be available for questions and mentoring in indirect ways. I see him being very competitive and focused on his own improvement more than his understudy’s growth. I do not knock Peyton for this because it is just what it is.
I have held a theory for years that we are in the QB trouble we have been in since Marino left becuase Marino would not allow for his eventual replacement to stand on the side lines like Aaron Rodgers. I know it has been forever since Marino retired, but I blame Marino’s passion, focus, and competitiveness for us not having a smooth transition after he left.
Phinphinatic - February 9, 2012
Its not Marino’s fault that we never drafted anyone with the ability to grow in to the position.
texascowpunk - February 9, 2012
Sure he can
He can teach how to study film, he can teach how to help game plan and teach just how to be a leader (command a huddle) and a professional. They have coaches to teach and work on technique, Manning can teach the “QB of the future” all the other intricacies of being an NFL QB
Agent J 78 - February 7, 2012
you don't teach leadership Lol
Carl Johnson a.k.a CJ - February 7, 2012
Someone should tell thousands of years of military theory then.
I think it may be under the wrong impression.
PNSter - February 7, 2012
then why wasnt leadership taught to chad henne lol
Carl Johnson a.k.a CJ - February 7, 2012
it was
He was being a great leader I the offseason. Henne had other issues
AnishB15 - February 8, 2012 via mobile
4-3 Defensive Scheme
What happens to Langford? Does he get traded too? I assume we’ll still have McDaniels (I actually like him in a reserved/limited role). So by transitioning to a 4-3 we will get rid of Solia and Langford and then replace with Wake, Odrick, Starks, Couples/Ingram?
What about Misi playing that other DE spot? Wasn’t that what he played in college? Kind of a hybrid linebacker/DE? I realize then we’d need another backer….like Upshaw.
What ever happened to AJ Edds? I thought he was suppose to play a role before he was injured? Does he or Spitler have the opportunity to step in? I realize they’re not “sexy” options, but Miami has it’s way of always going to non-sexy route in everything except the Marshall trade and now, due the season he had, the Bush trade. Too bad JT couldn’t stick it out one more year.
So what’s the chances Langford is traded, Misi moves to DE as well, and the Dolphins actually draft a LB in the 1st? This all of course under the scenario that Manning is signed and Griffen is off the board.
Jared Maier - February 7, 2012
I like...
Elite RT in the first if we sign Manning and trade back into 1st for Tannehill. I watched a lot of footage on Sherman’s QB and I know I will get killed on this, but my first (and i suprised myself) was this kid reminds me of Marino, except he can actually run. I think it is his release and how quickly he gets rid of it. I think our defense is elite and just need to move some pieces around and add a couple athletes. By the way Edds was cut and picked up by the Patriots and then released (just wanted his intel of our schemes)
SilentStorm73 - February 7, 2012
AJ Edds got cut, Langford is a FA, so the Dolphins will either resign him or let him walk.
I dont think Misi will be effective at DE, he doesnt have the strength to play the position IMO. What I believe the Dolphins should do is trade down (possibly with Cincy) and pick up an extra 2nd round pick, with the 17th pick select Upshaw (or Ingram IF available), then use the first 2nd round pick on Ryan Tannehill (IF also available), and then use Cincy’s 2nd on the best OL available.
FinsDBess15 - February 7, 2012 via mobile
I thought so
I thought Edds was, but I thought maybe I missed an injury or something.
I like your idea as well! As a Bama fan, anybody on the Crimson Tide excites me. Even Hightower would be a nice addition to the defense as well.
I also like the RT situation. Protecting Manning will be essential. He can’t throw from his ass and if you look at Indy’s dominance with Manning at QB, he rarely ever got hit. Don’t forget John Jerry either though!
Jared Maier - February 7, 2012
Im in accord with this plan
not so sure it is THE plan.I wrote on this blog I as GM would have in my list 1st Peyton,2nd Griffin,third Flynn at the right price these are all QB scenarios but isnt that what the majority of fans and the ownership would like.After I got a QB my draft would be finalized.
broxtone - February 7, 2012
U have to, HAVE TO.... Sure up the right side of the line which was hemmoraging last season
.next Id like to see another pass rusher opposite wake, not someone slow and heavy, someone who is young and versatile and like u said in the article- hybrid. We need to look for an athletic TE too, fasano is steady but not a threat. Bottom line, u have to protect manning first and foremost or go all in and get a QB in the top 5 IMO.
sonnycrockett - February 7, 2012
Manning = No QB with 2nd Round pick
If Manning comes to the Dolphins (and I personally hope that scenario happens), the Dolphins suddenly go into “win now” mode. After watching what happened to the Colts without Manning, I think most non-biased observers would believe the Dolphins go from a 6-8 win team next year to a 10-12 win team. The Dolphins certainly have holes in their roster, but they have a solid nucleus of good, young players and that will be enough for Manning to take them into the playoffs.
With that in mind, the drafts for the next couple of years will be about getting players who can get on the field and contribute immediately. I think a QB will be taken, but most likely it would be a 5-7 round type of situation. Rounds 1-3 will be reserved for difference makers that can help NOW.
In my eyes, those first three picks will be a OLineman, a pass rusher (DE most likely if the team shifts more to the 4-3), and either a Safety or a TE. I think they can be taken in any particular order – whoever the Dolphins have as their top player at any of those positions will be the one who is taken. I could see 1:OL, 2: TE, 3: DE, or I could see 1:DE, 2:OL, 3: FS, or some other combination. I’d be happy with any of this, but if I had to choose, I’d take R. Reiff in the first, the best TE in the second, and the best remaining pass rusher with the third.
And…I’d talk Jason Taylor out of retirement for one more year ;-).
douglaskoehne - February 7, 2012
I disagree
Manning/Flynn = 2nd Round QB to draft (or inclusive Tannehill in later 1st if trade down)
David Leal - February 7, 2012
Manning would love that
How does this conversation go over with Manning? Hey, I know we just signed you to this big new contract and we have a 2-3 year window to win the SB with you. But…ummm….well, we are going to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB so that you can groom him for when, well, you retire, you know? I know, I know, that pick could be a seam TE that you like, similar to Dallas Clark, or a pass rusher that would improve our defense and get the opposing teams off the field to get you the ball back, but, ummm, we have to look toward the future.
That is a conversation I bet will NOT happen.
douglaskoehne - February 7, 2012
Didn't we, um, use that first pick on a pass-rusher?
And you’re right. It makes much more sense to let Manning play out his contract with no future starter behind him. There’s no way we’ll regret that decision.
kmb8488 - February 7, 2012
LOL
PNSter - February 7, 2012
LOL Sometimes the obvious escapes us...........
texascowpunk - February 7, 2012
If Miami signs Manning then I don’t know how or why JT would stay retired. If I was him, I’d jump and shout for joy at the chance of coming back and playing with Manning and winning that SB I’ve always dreamed about. Hell I wouldn’t be pissed if Zach Thomas wanted to come back for another year either. I’d totally sign JT and ZT!
One thing that popped into my head about signing Manning, it’s basically a do or die situation for Miami. Fans aren’t coming to the games, football is losing it relativeness in Miami. Sign Manning, and the town will be jumping in joy to go see a Phins game at the stadium. Miami HAS to sign Manning. I don’t think Flynn could bring the fans in like Manning could.
Jared Maier - February 7, 2012
Exactly
douglaskoehne - February 7, 2012
Flynn's name
won’t bring in fans like Manning’s name… but winning certainly will. As will a QB who can stay healthy with the promise of being a Phin for the next ten years. That brings fans for years and creates NEW DolFans as opposed to converting Manning fans, to be gone when he is gone.
PhinNomenol! - February 7, 2012 via Android app
Nick Foles
Nuff Said
k2oconnor - February 7, 2012
Yeah he'd be perfect behind Manning or Flynn
Last I heard he’d be available in the 4-5 range. That way we could get some other playmakers in rounds 1-3, and still have a developmental guy. On top of that we’d have a great backup with Moore.
Red Dog - February 7, 2012
I just dont understand why a pass rusher is our biggest need?
I feel that we do need to look at some guys to see if we can improve the pass rush opposite Wake, but couldnt we do that in free agency for much cheaper? I still believe that the team’s biggest need is at RT. If we could solidify that OLine, i think that we are instantly playoff contenders with the remainder of our roster.
We could find a pass rusher later int he draft as well.
My wishlist:
1a-Sign Manning
1b- Sign Flynn
2- draft RT
3-draft QB
4-draft Safety or Pass rusher
5-draft safety or pass rusher
6- draft TE
7-draft MLB
8- draft WR
Phinphinatic - February 7, 2012
I agree that right tackle is a big-time need for us. However ...
Not really. If we want to find a knockout pass-rusher opposite Wake, this draft will be the best place to do so.
kmb8488 - February 7, 2012
Free Agent
I’m not sold on drafting a pass rusher. Pass rushing skills, next to QB skill, is one of the most difficult when it comes to transitioning from college into the NFL. And for many players it takes 2-3 years to develop the additional 2nd/3rd move to be effective. Over half of the 1st round ends and OLB are true busts, similar to QB’s, and I am wary about the Dolphins taking a gamble here.
It might be more feasible to try and go for one of the pass rushers that are available this free agency period. What about trying to draw Calais Campbell back to south Florida? Or Robert Mathis possibly joining Manning down here? There are 5-6 above average guys available in free agency that I think might be available, and with them you are getting much more of a “sure” thing than a drafted guy.
Plus…JT still has an itch….hopefully his tweet last week leaves an opening for him. I think he could still produce 5-6 sacks if he only has to play 15-20 plays a game.
douglaskoehne - February 7, 2012
Not Mathis but....
Freeny. IIRC, last I heard was Freeny was beginning to become unhappy in Indy and a possible move could occur. I like where we’re headed with personel (Packers and now possibly Colts). Two winning franchises in the recent decade. I would love Freeny down here there in Miami.
If we draft outside of a RT in the first round, then I’m pulling for a trade back and drafting Upshaw/Baron/Hightower (All Bama alum) depending on how far back we drop down.
As far as another offensive playmaker, how about T.O.? A team with Manning on it, I don’t think T.O. would be a problem. Look at Ochocinco with Brady. Ocho has shut up even though he rarely played. TO will give us another outside reciever. But that’s tough because it takes Hartlines position away and I actually like Hartline. But I see Hartline being a Camerillo type guy (not because he’s white) but because they’re isn’t many big plays called for him. He’s not a big play reciever. As far as Fasano is concerned, I think he’s just fine. He doesn’t have the verticle threat, but he is a solid blocker and has some good hands. Plus Clay in an improved role, will produce more consistently IMO. Offensively, if we add Manning, I think it’s all about shoring up that right side. Defensively, we need a ballhawking safety, like Baron, more than we need a pass rusher. We need a safety that can cover a freakin TE.
Jared Maier - February 7, 2012
If TO was worth it,
he would have been picked up this season at some point.
Phinphinatic - February 7, 2012
Many positions pose a draft risk
The “draft a pass-rusher early” model worked out pretty well for teams like the Giants, Packers and Broncos, no? And our pass-rusher would likely be a defensive end first, with the occasional foray into OLB territory. I don’t think we’re drafting a full-time rush linebacker here.
kmb8488 - February 7, 2012
There's still free agency to pick someone up for some positions....
Alpha6 - February 7, 2012
Ok so question for those more knowledged than myself
If we do sign Manning, it has been said he would be ok with taking an incentive laden contract so in this case having the salary cap supposed to be jumping drastically next season, say we let soliai and langford walk to clear up a little bit of cap space, how plausible is it that the FO would be able to structure a contract that is more back heavy and with lots of performance incentives and have him not take a huge heap of the cap space this year giving us the ability to sign another big FA?
AcolyteofRa - February 7, 2012
come on
If there’s one positive thing I have took from the manning situation, besides the fact that he could be a beloved dolphins jersey. Is the fact that he said he will do an incentive contract, meaning his play will do the paying. It not only allows him to grind it out and compete to show people he’s still the best but also allows him to be at a much cheaper price. Allowing us stability in FA. Now as far as the draft gsont draft a RT Lufthansa has showed enough promise that he could step in and play at a high level. Don’t draft a RE/LE Mario Williams is out there. With a cheaper manning contract we can draft a true DE in Mario Williams. We would have the 1st and 2nd pick from the draft where Houston elected to table Williams instead of bush lol. Don’t take a QB if your all in for manning then get him weapons. We already have Matt Moore as a solid backup and aside from Luck and the raw potential of griffin I would chance any of them. Maybe Kirk Cousins in the 5th. He’s accurate has a descent arm is mobile, a winner, a leader, very intelligent and helps his community. A perfect possible late round steal. In the first round its WIDE RECIEVER. Give manning a chance to have a Marvin harrison, Reggie Wayne attack. Brandon Marshal opposite Michael Cloths. Or trading back and having Sanu from Rutgers. The team would instantly be that much more explosive. Also in the second grab Olson Charles the TE from Georgia he’s a more athletic Jermichael Finley with less attitude. And in the third take LaMichael James RB Oregon. I could be biases cause I am a ducks fan but numbers and production don’t lie. Lamichael james is a straight stud. We could mimicking or revolutionize the thunder fire and lightening that the G-Men had with brandon Jacobs, ahmad bradshaw, and derrick ward, our offensive would just be unbelievable. Also reggie bush and lamichael james are all accustomed to splitting carries, and daniel Thomas could adjust as well. The saints use four running backs and it works for them. With the first three rounds in sometype of that order or method we could be dominant the sky would he the limit! Love my PHINS!
chad6 - February 7, 2012 via mobile
Agree to a point
If we get Manning, i think the first two priorities are protecting him and giving him more weapons. I think at some point in the first 3 rounds you need to take a OG/OT to compete on the right side. Leaving it up to Jerry and Murtha is just a disaster waiting to happen. But another TE that can get down the seam and another WR would be great additions to opening up the offense even more with Manning.
I don’t agree with a RB at any point in the draft. Bush did well, you have Thomas with a year more experience and hopefully no lower body injury, and we have stephen ridley stashed on the practice squad who flashed last year in the preseason for NE.
douglaskoehne - February 7, 2012
I think signing Manning = QB of the future being drafted in 2013. Only reason to sign Manning is to win now… you do that by drafting pieces you need to win now. Your future QB doesn’t need to sit for 3 years… 2 is fine.
kirby28 - February 7, 2012
How likely...
How likely would it to trade away draft picks this year to stock draft picks next year? And I mean trading with a team we all expect to be terrible again next year. Thus moving us closer to the top of draft and getting a shot at Barkley? Then Barkley sits until Peyton is ready to retire. I think with a signing of Manning, we ARE a heavy favorite for a SB berth. There isn’t much more that we’d need, outside of maybe Baron, the safety from Bama, in the 1st. Sign a FA RT or move Cary back to RT and Jerry at RG. Then next year we’ll have enough draft picks stocked to move into the #1 position, especially if like Indy is there again (after just drafting Luck) and we take Barkley.
Jared Maier - February 7, 2012
If we get Manning in FA
We have to draft OT in the first round. We have to protect Manning. We don’t ever want to see him get hit. Riley Reiff in the first would be my choice. I agree we need a QB to groom and I like Osweiler a lot (he has the strongest arm in this whole draft) but he could be picked up in the third and maybe even the fourth. If we go QB in the second, it’ll be Tannehill because of his upside. And don’t believe when people say he will definitely go in the first round. With several FA options, teams will not pick him up in the first. He has tremendous upside but is a project that will take a few years.
SergeHimself - February 7, 2012 via mobile
manning signed free agent
also coming with manning is wayne and possibly saturday…move pouncy to guard…
you have marshall and wayne and bess at best….trade down in draft and pick up floyd or baylor wide out and lamichael james…followed buy a guard or tackle and safety and pass rusher…..draft to outscore everyone till defense comes together….with these playmakers you will score like 30 points a game…..hope someone sees this…including ireland ….
will we be set on offense and for the next few years and then go after defense in 2013.
kherlehy - February 8, 2012
I wondered
About Saturday coming over as well. Him and Manning are pretty good friends it seems like. But I don’t know about Wayne coming. Although it could be possible, he went to “The U” didn’t he? That’d be a “dream come true, only going to happen in Madden” type of situation though.
Jared Maier - February 8, 2012
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